The real problem is that you can find someone to support any side of any argument you care to make where this war was concerned. Sunray ( talk) 16:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC) Funny thing about that article was that it goes out of its way to say taking Canada never was the primary reason for the war. It is interesting reading and may be illuminating for many who were taught the myth. Just that we cannot use it to determine who 'won' the war. Not to say that it isn't interesting, or that we cannot use it. The Straight Dope is not a reliable source for the War of 1812, in that it is not a peer-reviewed historical source. It had the opposite effect, and spurred tremendous growth. No matter what had happened before the Treaty of Ghent, it was clear that after the War of 1812 the United States was not defeated and it was not Vietnam- how irresponsible.

The weakness of not having a trained, quality standing army and navy was shored up by vastly improving both.

By not being defeated, it led to the impetus of broadening the borders of the United States and an idea of destiny.

The United States clearly established herself as an independent nation amongst its people.

Narson ( talk) 09:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC) The following points can not be ignored: It looks like he took a few sources and synthesised his own conclusion.

He echoed the point about Canadians viewing the thwarted invasion as a victory, noting that many Americans describe an equally complicated conflict, the Vietnam War, as having ended in defeat.' and the fact that it is written by a chap called 'Gfactor' means this is likely not going to pass reliable source. Lines like 'I asked my Canadian friend, Straight Dope Message Board member Northern Piper, about Canadian attitudes on the War of 1812. I am one of the Americans that does think we lost however just exactly what are you claiming a bias about? Tirronan ( talk) 09:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC) The 'straight dope' indeed. Lonewolf BC ( talk) 08:48, 8 January 2008 (UTC) Ah, sorry for losing my temper, look how about just for once please reading the pages above? I can find as many historians that think the US fought it to a draw as thought it lost. The neutrality of the WP article would be improved by taking a lead from what this impartial (and American) source says. It addresses some issues of bias in the article, particularly about the war's winners and losers, and gives some excellent references. I urge editors of this article to read The Straight Dope about the War of 1812 (which I've added to it as an external link, besides giving the link here).

22 War of 1812 Citation Needed Resolved.

10 The instigation versus causation of the war.

War of 1812 mod napoleon total war